Episode #6: You’re The Weak Link

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  Speaker 1:
  In a world captivated by criticism and negative clickbait headlines, it’s easy to overlook the scope and power of technologies propelling us forward. At Tech Optimist, we delve into the vibrant intersection of technology and entrepreneurship, shining a light on innovators who are building a better future. As members of the most active venture capital firm in the United States, our unique vantage point offers us insights into the real-world impact of technology. Join us as we explore, celebrate, and contribute to the stories of those creating tomorrow.

  Mike:
  Welcome to the sixth episode of the Tech Optimist podcast. On this show, we cover the intersection of technology, venture capital, and entrepreneurship. Episode six, our best show yet. Thanks for joining.

  We have three blocks for you today. In Block One, we have a conversation with David DellaPelle. He’s Co-founder and CEO of Dune Security, a company using AI in the cybersecurity space. Dune’s interesting because they really take a strong look at the human factors, which, if you read the news, is where one of the weak links is in all cybersecurity defense. Fascinating conversation—hope you enjoy it.

  Then in Block Two, we have AV partner Pete Mathias. He interviews Matthew White and the CEO of Multitude Insights. This company is doing work in the area of law enforcement. A lot of VCs shy away from anything that works with government agencies. We think this is a really interesting story, with a really interesting team. I hope you enjoy it.

  Finally, in Block Three, I talk with AV senior associate Drew Wandzilak. Drew and I are talking about space. What’s going on? Learn a little bit about areas we think are investable, areas we’re shying away from. If you find space as interesting as I do, I think you’re going to find it as an investable area—super interesting.

  As a reminder, the Tech Optimist podcast is for informational purposes only. It is not personalized financial advice, and it is not an offer to buy or sell securities. For additional important details, please see the text description accompanying this episode.

  Okay, let’s get into Block One with David DellaPelle, Co-founder and CEO of Dune Security. Tell us a little bit about Dune Security.

  David DellaPelle:
  Great, thanks, Mike, for having me today. Super excited to join the Tech Optimist podcast. I’m the Co-founder and CEO of Dune Security. Dune Security is really a paradigm shift in enterprise cybersecurity. For too long there have been endpoint-centric or network-centric approaches to cybersecurity, and 80% of breaches start with employee error.

  What we do is take in all of the relevant data and pinpoint in any company who’s creating risks, to what extent, and how. In doing so, we reduce the attack surface for the biggest risk to enterprises.

  Mike:
  Where are you in your journey? It’s a pretty early-stage company, right?

  David DellaPelle:
  Yeah. Actually, we’re de jure less than a year into our journey. We incorporated on May 16th of last year, but we’ve had a great first year working with some of the biggest companies and enterprise security teams—really just some of the biggest brand names. We have the best investors like Alumni Ventures, Kraft Ventures, Sequoia Scout Fund, Fire Street Ventures, Antler—and yeah, it’s been pretty fun so far.

  Mike:
  Yeah, great. My sense is a lot of what you’re doing is addressing the human side of cybersecurity. You read about all of these things like the MGM breach that started with human error. I think that’s unfair. I mean, we’re all human, and it comes with a lot of humility about psychology, biases, heuristics, and the whole Daniel Kahneman world of how our brains are wired—and people that understand that prey on it. That leads to vulnerability. So, do I have some of that right?

  David DellaPelle:
  Yeah, I think that’s spot on. Really, the way the market has optimized for this problem—which again, I think is the biggest problem in cybersecurity, and the data backs it up—you’re completely right. The behavioral piece is a massive problem, and “prey” is the right word. We’re seeing it’s typically employees in companies that are a little bit more prone to falling for these types of social engineering attacks.

  Sometimes it’s older people as well. Even on the consumer front, you’ll often have hackers that specifically target grandmothers or grandfathers. It’s a really tough situation. Candidly, there are all these amazing “castle wall” solutions—network security, endpoint security, identity—you name it. Lots of great innovation, but there really hasn’t been good innovation in our space.

  There’s a company called Elevate Security that led the charge. They started taking in what I call “business as usual” data—data specific to levels of access, permissions, and anomalous behavior. They had an excellent vision and a great approach, but I think there’s something much bigger here: being agnostic to the data sources, taking in all relevant data about employee risk, which is only possible using AI.

  Then, using AI to analyze those disparate data sources to truly pinpoint who’s creating risk, to what extent, and how—contextualized to the user’s risk within the company: their title, their level, etc. It’s really about not being beholden to any individual data source, but agnostic to all of them.

  Mike:
  Give our listeners a sense of the engagement and the experience you would have with a typical client. I know it’s super early, but do you have a sense of how you get started? What’s that journey like? Who are you selling to? What’s the decision-making side of it?

  David DellaPelle:
  Yeah, we kicked off with one of the largest investment management companies. I really think about the user. Our first and foremost concern is delighting the user. We talk about creating this 10-star experience for every single one of our enterprise customers. That’s not my original thinking—Brian Chesky talks about that all the time. You don’t just want a five-star experience where the Airbnb is clean; you want to pick them up from the airport and give them a bottle of champagne and really build that 10-star experience.

  To answer your question, we kicked off with this investment management firm. What we found is that there are newer companies being built in the security awareness training space, which is the first space we’re going after. I think we’ve successfully differentiated ourselves so far.

  In those tools, there’s a lack of ability for CISOs, GRC teams, and security awareness folks to actually hold high-risk users accountable. In our platform, the data is transparent and clear. Users go in and see their risk profile—it’s clear as day—and it actually goes viral within the company.

  We talk about this shared responsibility of security awareness. That’s talked about all the time, but nobody’s really done it. I think we actually did it. We’ve really delighted, especially our admins.

  Mike:
  Yeah, the psychology there is at work too. If you share data and information, best practices and worst practices, the system oftentimes manages itself pretty well as opposed to command and control.

  Very interesting approach. This is kind of the arms race: you have hackers and exploiters using human psychology and biases, but as business leaders, we have to use that ourselves—with our own team and our own solutions—to stay ahead of that. It’s about understanding how competitiveness works, or aspirations, or fear, and all that kind of stuff.

  David DellaPelle:
  And it’s that piece, Mike, but it’s also the AI piece—that’s massive. When you said “arms race,” I was just thinking about standardized testing and training of users. These old-school, manual back-office systems are, in my opinion, all going to be replaced by AI that can automate these legacy workflows.

  Mike:
  100%. Yeah.

  David DellaPelle:
  With a lot of these workflows—and what’s amazing is the professionals in the back office, in our case the governance, risk, and compliance folks who are really the power users of our platform, going up to the CISO—they’re amazing. They’ve created great security awareness programs, but the technology is lacking. They have to manually configure everything.

  We help them by automatically training people on what they’re bad at, not what they’re good at, plus what they need for compliance. We then provide the data for the 3–5% of people who are careless or maybe ignorant of the risks. The CISOs and security operations teams can start restricting access for those people or tightening email filters for them. It’s exciting and effective.

  But on the other side, hackers are using AI to target thousands of companies in the same time they previously could only target ten. You can’t fight that manually.

  Mike:
  It’s like a drone swarm—it’s an asynchronous battle.

  David DellaPelle:
  You need to fight the AI threat with AI security. It sounds cliché, but it’s absolutely necessary.

  Mike:
  No, it is. You don’t want to bring a knife to a gunfight.

  David DellaPelle:
  Exactly.

  Mike:
  Right.

  David DellaPelle:
  You don’t want to bring a knife to a gunfight. That’s the right way to put it.

  Mike:
  Because this is relatively recent, our audience is always interested in your genesis story. Starting a business is always a big step. I think you had a co-founder, David. What came together to make this plunge, and how did that go down?

  David DellaPelle:
  Yeah, I think some people—and I have many friends who’ve started businesses—have a very intentional path. My path just kind of found me, Mike. It really did.

  I always felt uncomfortable in my early twenties being very junior in organizations, and I realized I needed more experience. So, I did everything. I was working two full-time jobs at once. I was getting my MBA while helping to build this network security company, which had a 20x exit into a unicorn during that time.

  I also worked in VC. I was helping build AI and cybersecurity companies from pre-Seed through post-Series D, including great success stories like At-Bay, Perimeter 81, and Waycare—which was an AI shop in Israel where I worked eight years ago.

  Most recently, I was at At-Bay, a cyber insurance company, running their security product strategy. I saw that the human issue was really not being solved by the solutions on the market. So when I left that company, it was pretty clear to me what to do next.

  Again, there was no direct path—I learned as I went and found this opportunity. I should mention our co-founder meet story because it’s unique. I was flying to the Portuguese island of Madeira on a mission, and my co-founder Michael was also on that flight. There was a four-hour delay at JFK due to a cybersecurity issue.

  All the computers were down—they were manually checking people in. Michael and I got on the plane and were really the only people in Comfort Plus. We got to chatting. The next morning we thought we had landed in Madeira, but we were in the Azores. The plane was empty—they likely saved some money due to the capacity issue.

  I pitched him this idea while we were in the Azores’ Ponta Delgada Airport. It turned out he had been building data science platforms in AWS for Fortune 50s for 12 years at Accenture. It was the perfect technical skill set to pair with my business expertise.

  Mike:
  This is one of the realities of life and entrepreneurship—there’s serendipity, timing, and luck. It’s not “I have this idea, go to a hotel room, and write a business plan for two months.” It’s organic, living, breathing, and serendipitous. I think that brings it home perfectly.

  David DellaPelle:
  One last point there—I’m sure you have a bunch of questions, so I’ll stop after this. But our initial idea was just, “Let’s build a better security awareness training platform. Let’s train people on what they’re bad at, not what they’re good at, and save a lot of time in the process.”

  It’s evolved from there. The vision of what we’re doing has changed dramatically. It’s been a linear evolution—we haven’t really pivoted—but it’s evolved.

  Mike:
  That’s the organic model of how these things go. Everybody knows ideas evolve, get refined, and grow. I always say to people, being an entrepreneur is having ten ideas moving quickly, and hopefully four or five of them are right. You do more of that and rinse and repeat a thousand times, and that’s how you build a business. That’s the way it works.

  We have a large investor network and a huge community. If you had an ask, what would it be? How can people help you?

  David DellaPelle:
  I’ve been thinking about this pretty deeply. I think a lot of changes in how business is done came during COVID. When I was at Perimeter 81—a company we scaled to unicorn valuation and which was recently acquired by Check Point—we talked about how the new corporate network is the public internet.

  With that, it’s impossible to build castle walls and plug all the holes. Hackers are coming, and they’re going to win—they’ll always find a weak link. Especially with AI, there’s malware writing itself and other offensive threats.

  We’re in a situation where humans are the weakest link. So my ask is: if anyone feels similarly—that there needs to be a user-centric or human-centric model to enterprise cybersecurity—please reach out. It’s all I do all day: strategize through this stuff.

  Mike:
  Great. We’ll put contact information in the show notes. If you’re in that kind of position and want to learn more about the great work Dune is doing, please reach out. This is one of those things you do not want to wait to fix until it’s too late.

  David DellaPelle:
  It’s funny—we’ve had a lot of success early on, but we’ve also found customers who want to delay. That’s totally fine—we’ll talk to you later. But I know almost for certain they’ll come back within 12 months because they need our solution.

  Mike:
  On a personal note, I ask our founders for one personal productivity hack or one thing as a CEO or founder that you have found really helpful to share with other founders and CEOs who are listening in.

  David DellaPelle:
  Yeah, I would say sacrifice is everything. There are a lot of cliché pieces of advice I could give, but for us, what my co-founder Michael and I have done is really just put the business first time and time again.

  Of course, you always want to prioritize your health and your family. These are critical things, and without your health and family, it’s perhaps impossible to even be successful in business generally. But ultimately, I stopped drinking alcohol, I work out five or six days a week to keep myself centered, and I’ve made plenty of sacrifices to really achieve this vision.

  I think once you find that vision—that’s right for you—it won’t be hard to make the sacrifices. Once you have the long-term vision in mind… I remember Idan, the CTO of Waycare about eight years ago when I was in Israel, said to me, “Look, David, once you have the long-term vision, the short-term decisions become easy.” And I think that’s really what we have here with this mission.

  Mike:
  No, I can relate to that. Alumni Ventures found me later in life—I think I was 49 when I started the business. But when you know it’s right for you personally and there’s a market, one of the best decisions I ever made was to go all in.

  I was involved in boards, six projects, and other things, but being an entrepreneur and a founder is going all in.

  David DellaPelle:
  All in.

  Mike:
  And yes, family and health and all that stuff are critical. But the list gets very narrow and very deep, and it’s a matter of incredible focus and commitment. Going all in… you look back ten years later and realize the hardest decision—but the best decision—was not to hedge or spread yourself too thin, but to say, “I have an opportunity to build a company here, and I am going all in.”

  The sacrifice that comes with it is about trimming for sure, but it’s also the most rewarding thing you can do. So, yeah, very insightful, David.

  David DellaPelle:
  I think there’s a correlation between how hard something is and how good it is. The harder something is, and the more responsibility you take on, in my opinion, the more fulfilled you’ll be in your life.

  Mike:
  Yeah, and listen, I’ve got kids, and this is one thing I stress to them: the really good things—the truly rewarding things—are really hard and take a long time.

  That’s true professionally but also personally. Relationships, for example, if you have a partner—that’s hard, it’s long-term, but it’s rewarding because it’s hard. Everything looks easy on Instagram and fast, but the really good stuff is hard and takes a really long time.

  So, you’re mature to think that way. David, thanks for your time. Keep up the great work with Dune. This is a really important area. Don’t wait until it’s too late. We all know it’s the humans in the system that are a huge vulnerability, and Dune can help. So please reach out. Thank you, David. That was perfect—appreciate it.

  David DellaPelle:
  Thanks so much, Mike.

  Mike:
  All right, we’ll talk soon. Thank you.

  David DellaPelle:
  Sounds good.

  Mike:
  Yeah, bye.

  David DellaPelle:
  Bye.

  Matt Caspari:
  Hey everyone, just taking a quick break so I can tell you about the Deep Tech Fund from Alumni Ventures. AV is one of the only VC firms focused on making venture capital accessible to individual investors like you. In fact, AV is one of the most active and best-performing VCs in the U.S., and we co-invest alongside renowned lead investors.

  With our Deep Tech Fund, you’ll have the opportunity to invest in innovative solutions to major technical and scientific challenges—companies that have the potential to redefine industries, create a more sustainable future, and deliver significant financial returns.

  If you’re interested, visit us at av.vc/funds/deeptech. Now, back to the show.

  Mike:
  Next up in Block Two is Pete’s conversation with Matthew White, Co-founder and CEO of Multitude Insights.

  Pete Mathias:
  Hello everyone. Welcome to this series on great founders, industries, and technologies taking place here in the United States. Absolutely thrilled today that we have Matt White, the CEO and Co-founder of Multitude Insights.

  Multitude is, in a word, a game changer for law enforcement. They are reimagining public safety from the ground up, and we’re really lucky to have snagged some time from Matt’s busy schedule to hear more about Multitude and what they are building.

  Matt, you’re center stage. Let’s start with you. You’re an entrepreneur focused on a space that not too many people are laser-focused on. Tell us a little about what motivates you and why you’re building Multitude.

  Matthew White:
  Yeah, well first of all, Pete, thank you for having me on. I’m excited to have the conversation today.

  Like you said, law enforcement technology, civic tech, and gov tech aren’t particularly “sexy” or high-focus areas, although recently the dual-use space is heating up a little. But in law enforcement, there hasn’t been much application of unique, novel, advanced technologies.

  There are a lot of reasons for that, but chief among them is that it hasn’t attracted many people. My background is as a naval flight officer. I come from a duty- or service-oriented mindset, and to me, this felt like a space where I could build a successful business because it’s underserved, but also a place where the business could have a real impact on the men and women in uniform who go out on the line every day.

  For me, it’s an exciting place to be building and one we think has real impact.

  Pete Mathias:
  Let’s talk about public safety. At this point, you’ve had a front-row seat to some of the biggest challenges law enforcement is facing—from the street to the city and beyond. What are some of the big challenges you see that tech like Multitude might solve?

  Matthew White:
  Yeah, I think the biggest challenge is not unique to law enforcement, but it’s communication and information sharing.

  If you think about a police agency in your town, state, or region, it could be one of maybe 15 different agencies that might have jurisdiction over a given area. Walk from city to city—there are two police departments. Walk onto a college campus—now there’s a campus police element involved. Cross a particular line that isn’t part of any city—now you’re in a sheriff’s office jurisdiction.

  You see how complex it gets right away. There are about 18,000 of these agencies in the United States. It’s both the beauty and the worst part of a federalized system: getting all of them to talk to each other is difficult.

  That’s where our technology comes in—it’s specifically designed to help agencies share data, casework, and information. That’s why we’re focused there. It’s a massive problem, and we’re going after it using artificial intelligence and a few other tricks—borrowing from social media and other platforms that do a good job with this kind of thing. I’m pretty excited about that part of the world.

  Pete Mathias:
  Let’s talk more about Multitude. You’ve got these 18,000 agencies and an extraordinary number of potential users. Tell us about what you are building. Any anecdotes you can share about how some of these departments are receiving Multitude so far?

  Matthew White:
  Yeah, so we are building an information-sharing platform called BLTN. We spell it B-L-T-N because if you’re a tech company, you have to remove letters to make things exciting and interesting. We started with the humble bulletin.

  For those listening who are not familiar with the concept—in an old Western movie, it’s that wanted poster on the wall with a guy with a large mustache that says “$15,000 reward.” That’s a bulletin or flyer. Agencies put out hundreds of these each week across the country, generating a massive pool of untapped data.

  That’s what Multitude is going after. We started there because bulletins are naturally designed to be shared. You post a BLTN on the wall for others to see, comment on, and help you close a case.

  Other parts of the law enforcement data lifecycle are much more restricted—agencies want to keep that data private. So, we started with a piece of data meant for sharing to encourage natural information sharing between agencies and build a platform that works.

  We leverage a UI that looks almost like Twitter. It has a feed that’s algorithmically generated to help users sort through law enforcement information relevant to them at the user level. We make the post form extremely easy to use compared to the manual processes currently in place.

  We also have a mobile app that lets you do all the same stuff. People call it “Instagram for cops.”

  Matthew White:
  They’re out there flipping through it, looking at it, but then in the background, behind this relatively simple user interface, is a really robust and proprietary artificial intelligence tool that we call SmartLink. It’s kind of like having a detective in your pocket. Without me going on forever, it’s a system that links crimes based on our database and other linked databases. It will actually reach out to the officer and say, “Hey, Officer Pete, here’s this thing I’ve got for you. There are four other similar cases. Here’s who you should be reaching out to,” and it does a lot of that initial work for the officer.

  How has it been received? The short answer is: extremely well. We’re saving officers time, getting them out from behind their desks and back into the community engaging with the public. At the administrative level, they can get through more cases. So, yeah, it’s going well. There’s obviously a lot to learn every time you build a new product, but so far, so good.

  Pete Mathias:
  You’ve started to give us a glimpse into how Multitude is using AI. You’ve also been a thought leader, standing in front of thousands of officers and agencies. What are the big messages you’re telling these audiences about how AI can transform the police beat?

  Matthew White:
  I’ve given a number of courses around the country through training sessions and other speaking events. I always come down to a few rules for law enforcement leaders.

  The first is that you can’t do nothing about this. Like in any industry, AI is coming for law enforcement and public safety. That means educating yourself—come to my course, of course—but really understanding the technology: how it works, its many limitations, its capabilities, and how you can incorporate it throughout the workflows in a police agency.

  The second is that they need to train their people. Leaders need to get smart on AI, but they also have to translate that down to the street cop. Street cops have a lot of tools thrown at them. A chief might have a good idea and buy something new, but without training, it’s ineffective.

  The third is there’s a demographic shift happening inside law enforcement. I always tell chiefs: listen to your young folks. I get that you’re the decision-maker, but your young officers—who probably log into ChatGPT every morning to try something out—are immersed in this technology. They need a seat at the table because they’re the future leaders of the industry.

  I also spend time educating on how AI can improve training, recruiting, and retention. And finally, I talk about intelligence and data. One of the biggest problems in law enforcement is too much data. Systems that can collate and narrow that down are extremely valuable.

  Pete Mathias:
  Let’s scroll forward a decade. When you think about public safety ten years from now, what’s the biggest change and what remains the same?

  Matthew White:
  It’s tough to answer briefly because there’s so much to consider—technologically and from a policy perspective.

  From a public policy standpoint, I think we’ll see impactful changes. As the industry becomes more comfortable with and understands AI in law enforcement, you’ll see one of two things:

  One, a proliferation of surveillance ordinances that are extremely restrictive on what technology law enforcement can use. That could be a knee-jerk reaction to adopting any technology labeled “AI” due to fear of surveillance.

  The other—and more hopeful—scenario is that as more technically savvy people move into city councils and state legislatures, we’ll have leaders who understand that this technology can keep communities safer. We’ll be able to catch criminals who move from town A to town B to town Z and normally would get away—but linking technologies could finally bring them to justice.

  I’m hopeful. I’m a tech optimist. I think a lot about how AI can be used for good in this industry, and I believe it will be. But there’s another group of folks who, ten years from now, may see it differently.

  Pete Mathias:
  Matt, thank you for being on the hopeful side of the coin. Thank you for building something that brings out the best in public safety and beyond, and thank you for joining us today. We are rooting for Multitude Insights.

  Matthew White:
  Thanks, Pete. Happy to be here.

  Pete Mathias:
  Hey everyone, just taking a quick break to tell you about the U.S. Strategic Tech Fund from Alumni Ventures. AV is one of the only VC firms focused on making venture capital accessible to individual investors like you. In fact, AV is one of the most active and best-performing VCs in the U.S., and we co-invest alongside renowned lead investors.

  With AV’s U.S. Strategic Tech Fund, you’d have access to an investment portfolio focused on technologies critical to bolstering U.S. national security and economic prosperity. We prioritize three key areas: homeland security, cyber/AI and digital strategy, and space innovation. By investing in companies innovating in these areas, you can support early-stage ventures and help encourage sustained growth and technological progress in the United States.

  If you’re interested in learning more, visit av.vc/funds/strategictech.

  Mike:
  Okay, last up today is my conversation with Drew Wandzilak, where we talk about space. Enjoy.

  How would you describe that haircut you’re rocking today?

  Drew Wandzilak:
  I’d describe it as going back to the side part after a quick audience survey on my previous middle-part hairstyle.

  Mike:
  Yeah, I noticed you look a little different. I’ve had this hairstyle for about 27 years.

  Drew Wandzilak:
  Tried and true.

  Mike:
  Tried and true. I try to eliminate as many decisions from my life as possible.

  Drew Wandzilak:
  Well, that’s a big thing. I think mental capacity—not just you, but people in general—can only make a certain number of decisions a day.

  Mike:
  Yeah, that was the whole Steve Jobs wearing the same turtleneck every day—it’s one less thing to think about.

  Drew Wandzilak:
  My strategy when eating out is to ask, “What does the chef recommend?” or “What’s the special?”

  Mike:
  Yeah.

  Drew Wandzilak:
  Cool, I’m in.

  Mike:
  That also adds variety to your life and food choices. There’s a good Netflix documentary on gut biome, and one simple hack is to eat different foods. People sometimes have the same thing for lunch five days a week. Don’t be that person.

  So, why don’t we tell our audience who I’m talking to today?

  Drew Wandzilak:
  I’m Drew Wandzilak, a Senior Associate here at Alumni Ventures. I support our Green Team, which includes Dartmouth Green D Ventures, Harvard Yard Ventures, our Women’s Fund, and our U.S. Strategic Technology Fund.

  Mike:
  Yeah, big team, big remit. So, I want to talk about space today. I know you’ve looked at that a bit. You’ve done a deal or two with your team, and it’s obviously an area that I think is really interesting. What do you think people don’t understand about it from an investing standpoint?

  Drew Wandzilak:
  Yeah, I think people are slowly realizing just how big of a market this is and will be. The World Economic Forum just released a report last week projecting this market to be nearly $2 trillion in value over the next 10 years. And I think—

  Mike:
  I think those reports are bullshit. The top-down ones from some big McKinsey report or something. So, you’re going to have to do a better job selling me than that. Give me why—what applications? Yeah, I read billionaires are building rockets that are really cool and that our grandkids will live on Mars, but if I’m going to invest a dollar today, why does it make sense to put some of it in space?

  Drew Wandzilak:
  Yeah. Let me put some of this in perspective. There was a great article by an investor at Andreessen Horowitz—one of the premier venture shops—by a guy named Ryan McIntosh, who does a lot of their strategic tech investing, similar to our Strategic Tech Fund.

  He talks about the history of space in a compelling way, comparing it to early old world-to-new world exploration. There are powerful analogies between the development of America and what we’re seeing in space. At the end of the day, we’re exploring a new domain that has no infrastructure, and we’re trying to figure out how much value there is for us as venture investors.

  Mike:
  And how soon is it, right? I think the issue is not whether it’s going to happen—it probably will. As venture investors, we have a longer time horizon than public market investors, but we have ten-year funds. We’re looking for things on the edge of creating value now.

  My sense is it’s an infrastructure story. The cost of getting a kilogram into space is dropping fast. The internet and the iPhone didn’t take off until foundational technologies were in place. Once they were, two guys in Palo Alto could build something that changed the world. Isn’t space at that point now—where foundational infrastructure has been building for 25 years and we can finally build on it?

  Drew Wandzilak:
  Absolutely. That’s the high-level story. A lot of the trajectory is thanks to SpaceX and private investment in space, but it all started with NASA and government funding, dating back to the space race and the Cold War.

  Like early Christopher Columbus voyages funded by the Spanish monarchy, there was an ideological reason to explore—it wasn’t about extracting immediate value. We wanted to get to the moon to prove we could, not to mine lunar water. That was the first phase.

  Mike:
  And usually government-sponsored, right?

  Drew Wandzilak:
  Government-sponsored, yes.

  Mike:
  Because the payback is so far out, so abstract. This is where government often doesn’t get enough credit. Tech founders like to say “it was all me,” but the government was doing foundational research—interfaces, the mouse, DARPA, and so on—that entrepreneurs built upon. SpaceX probably doesn’t exist without NASA.

  Now, innovators are dramatically dropping costs, which is the big driver. But let’s talk about the next 10 years. Where do you see activity? Communications and military are obvious. Where else do you see innovation and investment opportunity?

  Drew Wandzilak:
  It’s still largely about building infrastructure to allow more advanced activities. The “more” includes better connectivity, better research, and better science specifically in space. For example, fiber optics or drug development could work better or only work in low or zero gravity.

  But we’re not fully there yet—the infrastructure isn’t built out.

  Mike:
  So, it’s still an infrastructure play.

  Drew Wandzilak:
  It’s still an infrastructure play. What SpaceX achieved was critical. Governments are great at thinking in 50, 60, even 100-year timelines, but they’re not built to think “how can we extract money from this now?”

  Mike:
  Or they’re just so unaccountable that they can get away with 50- or 60-year timelines. NASA could take its time because it had no competition.

  Drew Wandzilak:
  Exactly. NASA stagnated in the late ’80s and ’90s because they weren’t designed to build repeatable, scalable infrastructure. They focused on exploration, which was valuable, but repeating missions or creating a sustainable, commercial model wasn’t their forte.

  SpaceX changed that. Launch costs dropped dramatically. In the early 2000s, if you wanted to put something into space, you had to build the rocket yourself—spending billions. That’s why it was seen as a billionaire’s playground.

  Now, launching is more like booking an Uber: a few million dollars can get hundreds of kilograms into orbit.

  That’s phase one. Using the “new world exploration” analogy, SpaceX allowed us to reach the coastline of space—low Earth orbit (LEO). It’s where GPS satellites and Starlink operate. But we’ve only just landed on the coast; we haven’t built the railroads, highways, or settlements yet.

  So, we need to keep lowering launch costs, opening space to new markets and companies. We also need the ability to move objects already in space. The DoD is thinking about readiness for threats like nuclear satellites that could disable connectivity networks. Currently, we have no public response plan for that.

  We need capabilities to maneuver satellites over specific theaters or deploy goods and materials in orbit. Long-term, we’ll need repeatable infrastructure to reach and return from Mars or extract materials from asteroids or the lunar surface.

  We’ll also see space tourism and permanent space stations. Some companies in our portfolio are building toward that.

  But broadly, it’s infrastructure. Think gas stations in space, tractor trailers, logistics—the basics needed to support the next 10–20 years.

  Mike:
  Yeah, I agree. What I like about this for you, Drew, is that you’re at the beginning of your career.

  The potential here is infinite. For someone in their twenties who wants to be a venture capitalist and ride a big wave, this is one. There will be venture funds created 25, 30, even 50 years from now to invest in space.

  Going back to where you started, this ties directly to venture capital funding merchant vessels crossing oceans—managing risk because one out of ten would return and pay for the rest that sank.

  We’re going to have founders that Alumni Ventures will back in this area who haven’t even been born yet. So, absolutely, getting in on this vertical now is smart.

   

  Drew Wandzilak:
  And I want to emphasize that I truly believe we’re talking about this at the right time because this market has finally become venture-backable—not just based on risk profile, but timelines. Like you mentioned, if you were a seed investor in SpaceX, there were opportunities to exit, but it’s still a private company more than 20 years later. These are long timelines.

  What SpaceX did constricted what has been considered a “venture-backable” opportunity in the market. There’s going to be massive development over the next 50 years, but there will also be powerful innovations in the next 10–20 years that are truly venture-scale.

  Mike:
  Yeah… and Starlink is obviously hugely successful. There are unicorns galore coming over the next couple of decades in this sector.

  Relatedly, there’s also been talk about strategic tech. This is a new fund you’re involved with—Pete and your team are involved with it. Talk a little about the Strategic Tech Fund. I know space is one of the investable areas, but give us the idea behind that fund.

  Drew Wandzilak:
  Let me touch on the origin first and then describe how we’re thinking about structure.

  The origin is this underpinning of Department of Defense (DoD) support for innovation. We’ve talked about government’s role in sparking innovation. Broadly speaking—DoD, NASA, and others—they’ve become very effective at funding innovation. They have huge checkbooks now, and many startups are leveraging capital sources that didn’t exist before.

  Founders are strengthening not just the American industrial base but also contributing directly to security applications. We want to participate in that growth—especially as international and internal conflicts raise questions:

  Are we set up to support this? Is our supply chain resilient? Is our infrastructure—water, energy, cybersecurity—ready? Are we taking advantage of new domains like space? Do we have domain awareness, security, and the ability to access emerging markets?

  These issues are top of mind for both government and corporations. There are massive tailwinds converging, which is why we thought it was the right time to launch this fund.

  Mike:
  I also think there’s been a public tipping point in the past year. American society has decided there are certain foundational technologies that we must lead in—from the highest levels of government to Main Street, Wall Street, and academia.

  Whether it’s chips—largely manufactured in Taiwan, which is risky—or asynchronous warfare with drones versus multi-million-dollar missiles, or cyberattacks and hacking…

  Even concerns about international ownership of platforms like TikTok, where foreign interests influence what people read and watch without having their best interests at heart.

  Add to that potential bad actors in space.

  We as a country must lead in these areas—not just to create companies and grow the economy, but as patriots and Americans. Our independence and way of life depend on it. The future of power is broader than just having the biggest army or battleships. If you can’t get chips, things fall apart quickly.

  Drew Wandzilak:
  Candidly, government agencies recognize that. Whether it’s the infrastructure bill or the JOBS Act, there’s a wave of initiatives focused on rebuilding American infrastructure—roads, bridges, energy, water, cybersecurity, and more.

  As venture capitalists, we’re always thinking about milestones: how will you get there, and how much will it cost? When we see multi-billion-dollar pools of capital available—often non-dilutive grants rather than equity—that’s attractive.

  It’s similar to how early exploration and NASA developments were spurred. There’s much more capital available now for startups in this strategic profile, which is a compelling opportunity for venture investors.

  Mike:
  And I think for the U.S. to continue leading in areas where we already excel—AI, space, energy, and more—it has to be competitive. It’s not as easy as it was 25 years ago.

  To stay at the front, there must be a marriage between government and what I’ll call Silicon Valley—which today means the entire American entrepreneurial ecosystem: entrepreneurs, VCs, limited partners.

  Historically, those have been siloed. It’s encouraging to see progress—especially in military and space tech—but we need more coordination and mutual support across other strategic areas too.

  Entrepreneurs are problem-solvers. We need them working on drones, on space competitiveness, on leveraging foundational technologies to solve problems we’ve never solved before.

  As a tech optimist, I think we’re ready as a society to lean into this. There’s growing support for entrepreneurial problem-solving.

  Take another example: I recently interviewed CarbonCapture. During the industrial revolution, we dumped too much carbon into the atmosphere. We’re not going back to horse-and-buggy days, so how do we solve that?

  We unleash brilliant engineers, entrepreneurs, and venture capital. Capitalism and markets work—not every company succeeds, some bets are too early—but over time, this is how society solves problems and moves forward.

  Drew Wandzilak:
  Exactly. I always tie this back to “why now.” These themes have existed for decades or centuries—we’ve long needed a strong industrial base and government support.

  But recently, our team visited DC and will be at a national lab next week, continuing these conversations. The “why now” is that the government has finally realized—on a large scale—that capitalism works, entrepreneurs solve problems, and the shift is happening.

  Mike:
  And we don’t have to make everything ourselves. NASA’s collaboration with SpaceX and portfolio companies running parts of the International Space Station shows that.

  Credit to the government here—they’re recognizing their role versus the role of private entrepreneurs and risk capital. If we’re going to compete globally, let’s leverage what we do best: the American entrepreneurial ecosystem. As Americans, we need to lean into that.

  Drew Wandzilak:
  Absolutely.

  Mike:
  Cool. Good chatting with you today, Drew. Any final thoughts?

  Drew Wandzilak:
  No, this was great, Mike. Thanks for having me on.

  Mike:
  Good. We’ll talk again soon. See you, Drew.

  Drew Wandzilak:
  Great.

  Mike:
  Hey everyone, I’d like to tell you a bit about Alumni Ventures and our Foundation Fund. AV offers smart, simple, and accessible venture portfolios.

  We built our firm to serve individual investors and have raised over $1.3 billion from a community of more than 10,000 investors. PitchBook ranked AV the most active VC in the U.S. in both 2022 and 2023, and CB Insights ranked AV a top 20 performing VC for 2024.

  So where might investors start? Many people are interested in our Foundation Fund—one of our broadest, most diversified offerings. It taps into our substantial investment engine, offering a robust venture portfolio sourced from many of our investing teams and renowned lead investors.

  The Foundation Fund is diversified across stage, sector, geography, and lead investor to provide a balanced mix. For investors new to Alumni Ventures, it’s a great place to start.

  Ready to learn more? Visit us at av.vc.

  Thanks for listening to this week’s show. If you like it, please subscribe and share. Have a great week, and keep building.

  Speaker 1:
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