Episode #82: Meet the Startup Innovating Naval Operations with Uncrewed AI-Driven Ships

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  Samantha Herrick:
  Welcome to the Tech Optimist, a thrilling journey through the world of innovation presented by Alumni Ventures. Please secure your curiosity and prepare for bold ideas, cutting-edge tech, and the promise of a brighter future. I am your host, my name is Samantha Herrick, and I will be your guide. Your adventure begins now.

  Paul Lwin:
  And all the DOD officials that went around asking, “Hey, this is really cool. If I give you money, can you build thousands of these?” And no one, including the company I was with, had even thought through that and had an answer.

  Samantha Herrick:
  This is Paul Lwin, our guest today, CEO and Co-founder of HavocAI.

  Ryan Musto:
  US defense tech investors are hearing it all the time when we talk to the DOD. They want cheap, scalable, and “attritable” technologies, which is frankly a new word that the DOD and the defense community has invented.

  Samantha Herrick:
  And this is Ryan Musto, Senior Associate at Alumni Ventures. This initiative underscores a critical shift in defense thinking—lean, scalable tech that levels the playing field. And as Hicks puts it, “This isn’t just about keeping up, it’s about staying ahead.” And that’s me, your guide and host for this podcast, Sam Herrick.

  Hello listeners. Welcome back to the Tech Optimist, the podcast where innovation meets inspiration. Today, I’m thrilled to spotlight HavocAI, a startup at the forefront of autonomous maritime technology. HavocAI is revolutionizing Uncrewed Surface Vessels or USVs, developing a scalable platform where a single operator can control thousands of these autonomous assets. This Rhode Island-based company has already demonstrated its tech at a Department of Defense exercise, showcasing 12 operational vessels in action—and they are just getting started. They’ve raised around $11 million in seed funding with backing from Scout Ventures, Shrewsdale Ventures, Alumni Ventures, and others.

  Paul Lwin brings a compelling story of leadership and resilience. He’s our guest today. From fleeing Myanmar as a refugee to serving as a Naval Academy graduate and pilot, Paul now leads HavocAI with a vision to transform maritime operations across defense and commercial sectors.

  Next, we’re going to hear about their plans for leveraging Rhode Island’s renowned boat-building expertise, partnerships with industry leaders like IBM, and their mission to make scalable maritime autonomy a reality. So join me as I bring you through this conversation today between Ryan Musto, a Senior Associate here at Alumni Ventures, and Paul. We’re going to explore the future of HavocAI and their bold ambition to dominate the waves.

  Really quick, we’ve got an ad, a disclaimer, and then we’ll hop right in.

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  Ryan Musto:
  Hey everybody, I am Ryan Musto, Senior Associate at Alumni Ventures. Today I am joined by Paul Lwin, CEO of HavocAI. Hey Paul, how are you doing?

  Paul Lwin:
  Hey Ryan, thanks for having me. How are you doing?

  Ryan Musto:
  Good, good. Thanks for stopping by. So, a bit of context for our listeners: if you’re a politics nerd or perhaps a current or former member of the military community, or you just spend a lot of time playing Call of Duty, you might be familiar with the acronym UAV, which stands for Unmanned Aerial Vehicle—aka a drone. But you might be less familiar with another breed of autonomous vehicles that is certainly making a splash. And as Paul knows, that’s a very corny pun. USV stands for Unmanned Surface Vehicle. We’re talking maritime drones today, and HavocAI is really at the forefront of this fast-growing space.

  So before I give too much away about Havoc, maybe it’s best to start off by chatting a bit about your background, Paul, because you have an awesome story. Immigrated to the United States when you were a kid from Myanmar. US Naval Academy, onto the Naval Test Pilot School. Deployments in Iraq and Afghanistan. Man, your resume is insane—Yale MBA, CS advanced degree from Johns Hopkins, three Air Medals for combat, the Navy Commendation Medal, the Navy Achievement Medal.

  So after all of that, tell us—why did you want to head up to Rhode Island and build boats?

  Paul Lwin:
  Yeah, definitely. So what you just mentioned—my experience as a refugee—I think really resonated with me in everything that I do. It’s why I went to the Naval Academy and went into the Navy and did what I did. While I was in the Navy, I flew Prowlers, which are 40-year-old airplanes. And that was in 2010. I was flying over Iraq and Afghanistan conducting a very modern and digital mission in a 40-year-old plane. And that’s when I really got interested in what we talk about today: defense tech and defense innovation.

  Up there as a test pilot too, I got to work on next-generation weapon systems and really see the issues we have with innovation in the DOD. I decided to get out and ended up in a bunch of defense tech startups. At the last one I was with, I got invited to a conference with the DOD that they were having around maritime systems. This was two months after the Replicator Initiative was announced.

  At that conference, everyone brought all these cool things they were building—mostly USVs and other robotic systems. All the DOD officials went around asking, “Hey, this is really cool. If I give you money, can you build thousands of these?” And no one, including the company I was with, had even thought through that or had an answer. No one said, “Yes, give me the money, I’ll build thousands.”

  In my mind, I was like, “Here is a customer with money telling you exactly what they want, and no one has an answer?”

  Luckily for me and Havoc, my co-founders and I had been building robotic boats in our garages. We knew the technology the DOD was asking for existed—we just needed to harness it, figure out how to build at scale, and make the product from these prototypes.

  So that’s why we quit our jobs in January 2024 and went full steam into showing we could build them at scale. We built 12 of them. Usually, most companies just build one prototype. People said, “Why would you build 12?” Well, because success here means being able to build thousands—that’s what Havoc is building. So we built 12 and then, to show they worked and were mature (not just prototypes), we took them to a DOD exercise and let the DOD use them in the real world for 10 days. That was to show that, hey, we can build at scale and provide capabilities to warfighters.

  Ryan Musto:
  And now, before we get into the tech—and it’s super cool and I don’t want to spend a lot of time on it—I think it would probably be best to talk a little bit about the market here. Because there are these enormous geopolitical tailwinds that are blowing through that really affect all of us. And I’m talking South China Sea, I’m talking Black Sea. Maybe to frame it up, former Secretary of Defense Robert Gates probably put it best, or at least I think, when he said, “Putin’s invasion of Ukraine has ended America’s 30-year holiday from history. For the first time since World War II, the US faces powerful, aggressive adversaries in Europe and Asia.”

  So teeing it up for you—how does Havoc fit into this highly competitive geopolitical landscape?

  Paul Lwin:
  You just nailed it. Geopolitics are changing, the nature of warfare is changing. And we are a one-year-old company utilizing modern technology and all the innovations that everyone before us has built on to solve this problem. If you think about it, we’re the only company to have started in this environment specifically to solve these problems.

  You hit on China, and I think Secretary Gates said it best. But if you look at it, the Chief of Naval Operations just announced this navigation plan, which is like a guideline for the Navy. And in that, Xi has explicitly said, “Hey, China is getting ready for a war in 2027.” And Xi says, “My goal as the leader of the Navy is to be more ready by 2027.”

  If you hear a lot of Navy leadership talking at these conferences, they literally show a countdown to 2027. I think that’s very important. It shows the audacity of what we’re doing. It’s not this nebulous, idealistic thing we’re chasing—there is a real timeline dictated by the other side.

  And then, same thing with what Ukraine has done. If you look at the Red Sea, a country with really no Navy has taken on what we thought was a very capable Navy. And for us in the Red Sea, you look at the Houthis with $50,000 boats… also, the entire carrier battle group can move—that’s using these cheaply made things. And so that’s where you start to see the nature of warfare changing.

  We have to change with it. We can’t keep doing the same things and hope it’s going to work out. Luckily for us, I think on the investor side, the technology side, and the government side, for the first time in a very long time, there’s alignment. There are a lot of companies—not just Havoc—that are trying to solve this problem and make sure that our future is secure.

  Samantha Herrick:
  So now let’s talk about a pressing challenge in maritime innovation and how HavocAI is stepping up to the plate. Right now, the US and its allies face a tough reality: outdated R&D and production models are limiting their ability to meet global maritime demands.

  While technological advancements speed ahead, traditional shipbuilding just can’t keep pace. HavocAI, however, is flipping the narrative. Their approach is all about efficiency, scalability, and adaptability. Picture this—autonomous Uncrewed Surface Vessels (USVs) that are ultra-low cost and can be built in hours.

  These vessels have modular designs, meaning they can be reconfigured for a range of missions, whether it’s surveillance, defense, or exploration. But what makes it truly revolutionary is their AI-enabled tasking system. Instead of micromanaging routes, operators assign broader mission outcomes. Teams of USVs adapt on the go, even in challenging conditions like communication loss or GNSS degradation.

  HavocAI isn’t just designing for tomorrow—they’re delivering solutions today, making maritime autonomy accessible at a fraction of traditional costs. It’s a game changer for the defense and commercial sectors alike.

  Ryan Musto:
  Yeah. I think the Ukraine case study is such an interesting one. Us defense tech investors are hearing it all the time when we talk to the DOD. They want cheap, scalable, and “attritable” technologies—which is frankly a new word that the DOD and defense community has invented just in the past couple of years looking at Ukraine.

  Maybe share with our listeners: what does “attritable” mean? And you mentioned a little bit earlier the Replicator Initiative. Tell us about that momentous DOD roadmap, because it’s a pretty big deal.

  Paul Lwin:
  So it’s not a new concept. A lot of this comes about when you think about the Indo-Pacific and the adversaries that we’re facing. They can out-build us, they can out-man us—they just have more people. So there’s always been this thought: how do you counter that?

  You’ve got to route a lot more things than them, and you have to do it efficiently. So we can’t go with capital ships—when I say capital ships, I mean destroyers and carriers—and try to match them. We should, and hopefully we will, but there are other things like what Havoc is building.

  We could deploy tens of thousands of our surface vessels out there, and hopefully that can act as a deterrent. Because the oceans are so huge, you need a lot of assets out there to match the mass the other side is putting out.

  In Ukraine, what they’ve done is shown that it works. We’ve cut out a lot of the cost by building things more affordably and using commercial off-the-shelf components. Before Ukraine, if you went to sell something to the DOD and said, “Hey, I built this using mostly commercial stuff,” they would say, “No, we can’t do that. That’s not how DOD acquisition works. We’ll go to the prime contractor.” And then they take 10 years because that’s the process.

  But Ukraine has shown that you don’t need to do that. The Ukrainians—very brave and very innovative—are building new things every two or three months. And it’s not because it’s cool—their survival depends on it. They’ve proven on an actual battlefield that this concept works.

  On our side, it’s helping companies like ours and every defense startup in this space show that you can finally adopt innovative commercial things and get them into the defense sphere.

  Ryan Musto:
  Yeah. And maybe just to double-click for our listeners on what the Replicator Initiative is. Kathleen Hicks, a very high-ranking official in the Department of Defense, launched this initiative to get the DOD fully focused on procuring technologies that can be scaled quickly, can be cheaply built, and can be capable of being lost in warfighting settings without taking a huge hit to the budget.

  Samantha Herrick:
  As Ryan said, let’s double-click on this a little bit more. This topic really intrigued me—the whole Replicator Initiative that Deputy Secretary of Defense Kathleen Hicks is pushing through. I’m going to provide a little bit more information on it because I think it’s a really interesting piece of legislation currently on the table.

  Back in August 2023, Deputy Secretary of Defense Kathleen Hicks unveiled the Replicator Initiative—a bold push to deploy thousands of autonomous systems across land, air, and sea within a tight 18- to 24-month timeline.

  The goal? To counter China’s rapidly advancing military capabilities with scalable, cost-effective technology.

  Samantha Herrick:
  So here’s the deal. The Pentagon is channeling $1 billion over two years to bring this vision to life. But it’s not just about creating something new; it’s about scaling proven tech quickly. So we’re talking about aerial drones like Anduril’s Ghost-X, loitering munitions like the Switchblade 600, and even classified maritime systems—which is the sector HavocAI falls into. It’s a fascinating mix of hardware and integrated AI-powered software that allows these systems to collaborate and adapt autonomously.

  Now, progress is already underway, which is also really cool. You could say almost 12 months in, probably 14 months in, we’re seeing some progress. The first Replicator systems were delivered to military personnel in May of this year. Over 30 companies, including names you’ve probably heard of in defense tech, have been awarded contracts. And the competition was fierce—more than 500 commercial firms were evaluated.

  But not everyone’s convinced. Congress is keeping a close eye on transparency, costs, and operational security. And honestly, balancing speed and scrutiny is no small task. Still, the Replicator represents a strategic pivot—one that focuses on delivering results at scale today, not years from now. This initiative underscores a critical shift in defense thinking: lean, scalable tech that levels the playing field. And as Hicks puts it, “This isn’t just about keeping up, it’s about staying ahead.”

  Ryan Musto:
  So it’s a really innovative procurement strategy that the DOD has employed. So now that we’ve set the scene, Paul, let’s nerd out a little bit about the tech because it’s super cool. You guys have a different way of attacking this enormous market that’s laser-focused on providing exactly what we just discussed: affordable, scalable, attritable. The DOD is eating it up. Software-first approach, super price competitive. Tell us about the boats and what makes them so special.

  Paul Lwin:
  Yeah, definitely. So we’d like to say affordable, not cheap, just because the price point is important. So I’ll start there. When I went to the conference where we started this company, we really went and looked at the market research. We said, “Hey, there are a lot of competitors in this space building uncrewed surface vessels. Why can’t they build thousands right now? Why do they only have two or three?”

  We did a lot of research. What we found out was that it is very capital intensive. And we said, “Well, why is it capital intensive? What are they doing?” The problem is they’re building boats from scratch. So when you start a USB company you think, “Oh, I’m a boat company, so I have to build boats.” And that takes a lot of effort. You have to hire naval architects, hydrodynamics experts, CFD experts, and build the facilities needed to build these boats.

  So we asked ourselves, “Is that true?” We went back to first principles: “Do we need to build the boats?” We did this thought experiment where we said, “Hey, people have been building boats for thousands of years. Is innovation really the boat?” And we realized—no, the innovation’s not the boat. The Polynesians were crossing the Pacific on wooden rafts that they built out. They were very sophisticated systems—you could do it. So you don’t need to build a very sophisticated, elegant boat from scratch.

  We went out to boat builders to understand the possibilities. When we talked to them about the requirements and performance we were trying to reach, most didn’t think it was a big deal. Luckily for us, we’re in Rhode Island, the center of America’s Cup and all the boating ecosystem that exists.

  We found that these builders, like those making racing sailboats, were already building different models regularly. When they looked at the problems we gave them, it was just another boat to them—not difficult. They quickly helped us design and figure out how to build at scale. The exciting part is that they saw the potential to sell tens of thousands of boats here.

  For most US small boat manufacturers, commercial demand has already maxed out—they can’t sell more because Chinese manufacturers sell cheaper boats. So they realized this could open up a whole new market, and they were very excited to work with us.

  That allowed us to say, “Okay, we don’t have to focus on the boats. We can build thousands of boats if we need to use this system. Now we can focus on what’s really important.”

  Think about trying to control a thousand boats—put them in the real world and make them work, communicate, and coordinate with each other. That is an incredibly difficult challenge. It’s tough for hard AI. Before us, you hadn’t seen people operate more than two or three uncrewed surface vessels together because they hadn’t focused on that problem.

  We focused on the software—the autonomy, communication software, and human-machine interface. Just because they’re autonomous doesn’t mean humans aren’t in the loop. At some point, humans must know what’s going on, make decisions, and get feedback.

  But when you’re talking tens of thousands of these boats, humans can get overwhelmed. We focused heavily on how humans interact with thousands of these boats.

  Making these software-defined boats allowed us to iterate really fast. Within 18 months, multiple defense councils told us we were the most mature platform they had seen. We focused on the right things, not the wrong ones.

  Ryan Musto:
  Yeah, and just to continue painting a picture of these vessels for folks: they’re sold in squads of 10, which can be operated synchronously. You guys have logged something like 500+ hours of autonomous operations just this fall, which is super impressive.

  These boats function like network nodes, offering huge advantages for the warfighter. Walk us through the use cases. A lot of things come to mind—how do you envision warfighters using this technology on a day-to-day basis?

  Paul Lwin:
  You nailed it. What we’ve opened up is a whole new distributed way to handle many defense use cases. The simplest thing: we built these boats so you can put whatever you want on them—sensors, payloads, weapons. Because of that, they can carry things and move them around.

  There’s a big Pacific use case for moving supplies. Both the Army and Marine Corps have said that in a Pacific conflict, they’d need to do an island-hopping strategy and spread out over hundreds of islands. Right now, the way you get food and basic necessities to these islands is with piloted vessels—either helicopters, ships, or boats delivering what we call “beans and bullets.” That puts crews at risk. In a conflict, those vessels would be taken out.

  Our boats can autonomously move a lot of supplies. Each one right now can carry 300 pounds, and we’re designing bigger boats to carry more payload. That lets us remove people from dangerous missions so they can focus on more critical tasks.

  That’s a capability we can do right now. If you told us, “Move supplies between multiple sites,” these boats can autonomously handle it.

  Another big use case is persistent maritime domain awareness. You can put whatever sensors you want—EOIR, RF sensors—and use the boats to monitor an area, see what other ships are present, and protect waterways.

  Then there’s the “find, fix, track, and target” mission. Think about what Ukrainians are doing with surface drones. With more than one vessel, and fully autonomous coordination, these boats can execute tactics to find a ship and then engage it under human direction.

  Now imagine doing this over 6,000 miles. That’s why we want tens of thousands of these boats in the Pacific.

  Ryan Musto:
  And we’ve just touched upon two or three use cases here. There are so many more, which is why this is so exciting. It feels like for those of us that stay up to date on what’s coming out of Ukraine, the Ukrainians are finding new use cases for autonomous technologies, particularly USVs, like once a month. So really the opportunities here are enormous.

  As I’ve been talking to folks about Havoc, people naturally start asking big macro questions—from China to the election, international relations, political economy. All these things are really tied up in your space in ways that, for other startups, they probably aren’t. We’d love to run through some questions because you really have become an expert on a lot of these topics.

  And one that’s I’m sure at the top of most people’s minds is Taiwan. Xi has openly discussed and planned for the PLA, People’s Liberation Army, to have preparedness by 2027. The US Navy knows it, like you mentioned before. Anyone’s guess, but you certainly have a better guess than most. What do you think is going to happen in 2027? Do you think that we will actually face conflict in Taiwan?

  Paul Lwin:
  Hopefully not. I think that’s why we exist. And I’ll go back—I’m not an expert in any of these things. I think we’re all trying to figure it out. Especially, you know this, in the startup world, you have to be very humble. You have to be willing to learn. And so that’s what we’re doing.

  I think going back to your Taiwan question, obviously it’s a very tough geopolitical question, and there are a lot of smart people trying to figure it out. On our end, all three founders—we’re all veterans. Joe and Andrew. Joe was a Navy guy, and Andrew was a FSOC pilot. We’ve all been on combat deployments. We know when we talk about this conflict in 2027, that is not something anybody wants. So Havoc exists, and I think most defense tech startups exist, to try to prevent war. And in case war happens, we want to make sure that we have the advantage, but our primary goal is to prevent it.

  So what we want to do is give the DOD, and specifically the US Navy, the capability to deploy tens of thousands of these in the next year. And that’s the deterrent—to show the other side that, “Hey, we have the capability to match it, and we can do it in a very sophisticated way. Let’s calm down, let’s come back to the table, let’s figure out how to solve these problems so that we don’t have a shooting war. Because if there is a shooting war, we’re going to build hundreds of thousands of these and make it even more challenging for you.”

  But my hope is that, one, we are successful and we prevent this 2027 conflict from happening.

  Ryan Musto:
  Yeah, it makes perfect sense to me. In the same vein, I’d be remiss if I didn’t touch upon AUKUS, which for our listeners is the US’s biggest maritime counter to expanding Chinese influence in the Pacific. It’s a trilateral security partnership between us, the Aussies, and the Brits. Joint development of a whole host of really exciting technologies—from quantum, hypersonic, electronic warfare, and of course the crowning jewel of all this is the Australian acquisition of nuclear-powered attack submarines. A lot of analysts see this as a paradigm shift. What do you think, and how does Havoc fit into this really exciting dynamic landscape in the Pacific with our allies?

  Paul Lwin:
  I think we fit perfectly into it. If you look at AUKUS and Australia specifically, they’ve realized that their survival depends on the maritime environment. You look at Indonesia and Malaysia and how many islands that Australia has to worry about and monitor—they’ve always known that.

  I think we forgot about it post-World War II, and specifically post-9/11, when our focus shifted to the conflicts we were fighting. Now we’re coming back to it. It’s going to be a challenging maritime fight that we’re talking about in this conflict.

  So I think it’s good to have the Australians back working with us. They understand these island chains very deeply, and the environment and technology we need. We’ve been talking to Australian partners, and obviously we’ve been talking to our DOD partners. We’re hoping to get our boats out there to Australia, to the island chains, and start experimenting, learn from them.

  Because if you look at the Australians, they have a lot of small boats and vessels that they use in their navy. There are a lot of lessons we can learn and then take that knowledge to provide autonomous solutions to them, moving people out of harm’s way. So I’m very excited about it. I think this is a partnership that we absolutely need, and it’s vital.

  Samantha Herrick:
  All right. Before we wrap this episode up, we’re going to do an ad and then we’ll wrap back into the last few minutes of the show. Don’t go anywhere.

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  Ryan Musto:
  Yeah. Turning maybe from the international to the domestic—a new administration that has close relationships with Peter Thiel, who of course was heavily involved in the founding of Palantir and Anduril. Do you think we’re about to see an even further acceleration of the demonopolization of the primes?

  And for our listeners, when I say primes, that’s an industry term for defense contractors. So think Lockheed Martin, Northrop Grumman, General Dynamics. Paul, curious to hear your thoughts as the new administration might really shake up how these old players exist.

  Paul Lwin:
  I think so, and I hope so. And it’s not to say that the primes are going away. Those primes are vital to American security. If you hear people in the DOD talk about it, they’ll say that too. The primes are going to build F-35s and the destroyers and carriers and the really big systems—because that’s what they’re meant to do.

  Now, for the first time, the DOD has accepted, “Okay, we don’t need to let the primes build everything.” They’ve realized there are companies like Havoc and other defense tech startups that can focus on building innovative things and incorporate commercial technologies to solve defense use cases.

  That’s what’s happening. I think it’s already happening, but I think it’ll accelerate. Obviously, if you look at Palantir, I think their valuation just beat Lockheed Martin for the first time yesterday, which is mind-blowing. And it’s the right path to go.

  But I don’t think it’s a zero-sum game. I think what we’re already seeing, at least on the Havoc side, is we’re partnering with a lot of them. They’ve reached out.

  Paul Lwin:
  I think on their end too, they accept that they don’t want to build a thousand boats being sold at $80,000. That’s not how their business structures are built. But that’s what we do, and we can do it. So what they can do is partner with us, help us move faster, and then tackle some of the more challenging use cases, integrating these systems with the F-35 and the big destroyers and carriers. So that’s what I think is happening, and at least I hope it is happening. You’re going to see a lot more of the first tech startups become programs of record and then integrate and partner with the existing primes, who are still going to build these very big and exquisite things that have their use cases.

  Ryan Musto:
  Yeah. So as we wrap up here, I’m certain that many folks tuning in will find themselves moved by the magnitude of the mission. How can they get involved? Do you have an ask for our community?

  Paul Lwin:
  Yeah. I would say we’re very big on LinkedIn. We post a lot of videos. We do that because a lot of times people don’t believe us and we’re like, “We’ve got four boats.” And sometimes they’re like, “Well, they’re remote control boats, right?” Because that’s what everyone’s showing. We’re like, “No, they’re autonomous.” So we’d like to show them.

  If you’re in the government or if you are on the commercial side, please come visit us in Rhode Island. Every Thursday we do a day where we demo for customers and investors and just anyone that’s interested in this space. You can come see the boat, operate them, and then talk through some of the use cases and things that we could innovate on.

  If not that, I think you could get my contact info, I’m sure, through Alumni and find us on LinkedIn. Just send us messages and we’d love to host you.

  Ryan Musto:
  Fantastic. Well, thank you so much for sharing some time with us today, Paul. I know you’re a busy guy, so we’re so stoked that we were able to learn a little bit more about, again, really what is an enormously important initiative that Havoc is building towards. So thank you so much and hope to chat again soon.

  Paul Lwin:
  Thank you so much, Ryan. And thanks for all your support. Specifically, Alumni has been a huge supporter just in the last few months. We’re excited going forward. Thanks, Ryan.

  Samantha Herrick:
  Thanks again for tuning into the Tech Optimist. If you enjoyed this episode, we’d really appreciate it if you’d give us a rating on whichever podcast app you’re using. And remember to subscribe to keep up with each episode. The Tech Optimist welcomes any questions, comments, or segment suggestions, so please email us at [email protected] with any of those. And be sure to visit our website at av.vc. As always, keep building.